UK poker room scene - is online better than live now or am I missing something?
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Been playing poker for about 8 years now, mostly live at various UK poker rooms around London and Manchester. Recently been giving online poker sites UK a proper go and honestly wondering if I've been doing this all wrong.
The rake online seems lower, games run 24/7, and I'm not spending £20+ on travel and food every session. But am I missing something? The social aspect was always huge for me - reading tells, the banter, the whole atmosphere.
Anyone else made the switch from live to online? Which uk online poker sites are you using? Feels like the landscape has changed massively since I started.
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Made the switch 3 years ago and haven't looked back. Volume is everything in poker - you can easily 4-table online and see 300+ hands per hour versus maybe 30-40 live. PokerStars and 888 Poker dominate the UK market for good reason.
Yes you lose the social reads, but honestly most recreational players think they're Phil Hellmuth reading souls when they're just making educated guesses. HUDs and proper stats are far more reliable.
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@betting_pro Bit harsh mate! Live tells are definitely real, just overrated by most players. But you're spot on about volume.
@poker_pete_uk The rake difference is massive. Live rooms typically take £5-8 per pot, online it's usually 2.5-5% capped much lower. Over thousands of hands that's serious money.
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Here's the mathematical reality of rake impact:
Let R_live = average live rake per hand = £4.50
Let R_online = average online rake per hand = £2.20
Let H = hands played per month = 2000Annual rake difference = (R_live - R_online) × H × 12
= (4.50 - 2.20) × 2000 × 12 = £55,200That's £55k more going to the house live versus online annually. Even for casual players doing 500 hands/month, you're looking at £13,800 difference. The math doesn't lie - online is objectively better for your bankroll.
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Numbers are one thing, but poker isn't played in a spreadsheet. The psychological warfare, picking up on nervous tics, seeing how someone handles their chips - that's poker.
Online you're essentially playing a video game with cartoon avatars. Sure it's +EV from a rake perspective, but are you actually playing poker anymore?
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@casino_dan This romanticized view of live poker is exactly what keeps fish donating at 1/2.
Most 'tells' recreational players think they see are complete nonsense. Meanwhile online you get actual statistical data - VPIP, PFR, 3-bet percentages, aggression factors. That's infinitely more valuable than 'he touched his nose so he's bluffing.'
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Why not both? I play online during weekdays for volume and grinding, then live tournaments on weekends for the social aspect and bigger score potential.
Best uk online poker sites I've found:
Site Traffic Tournament GTD Cash Games Software PokerStars Excellent £500K+ Sunday NL2-NL500+ Outstanding 888 Poker Good £100K Sunday NL2-NL200 Decent Bet365 Poker Average £50K Sunday NL2-NL100 Basic William Hill Poor £20K Sunday NL2-NL50 Dated PokerStars is still king but 888 has been improving their promotions lately.
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@sarah_g That's actually a brilliant approach! Been so black and white in my thinking.
@ukgambler99 Those rake numbers are eye-watering when you put it like that. No wonder I've been struggling to show decent profits live.
Started a PokerStars account yesterday - the player pool is insane compared to my local card room. Seeing hands I'd wait hours for live every few minutes.
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Welcome to the dark side @poker_pete_uk! Few tips for transitioning:
- Start at lower stakes online - NL10 online plays tougher than 1/2 live
- Get PokerTracker or Holdem Manager immediately
- Join a training site like Upswing or Run It Once
- Expect 3-4 months adjustment period minimum
The learning curve is steep but worth it. Took me 6 months to match my live hourly online, now I'm making 3x what I did grinding live games.
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All this talk about optimization and EV misses the fundamental point - poker used to be about people, stories, characters. Now it's spreadsheet warriors grinding microstakes in their pajamas.
We've turned a beautiful, complex social game into a monotonous click-fest. Progress?
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@james_uk I get the nostalgia, but let's be real - most live poker rooms are filled with grumpy old men chain-smoking and complaining about bad beats. Not exactly the Rounders movie fantasy.
Online I can play optimal poker without dealing with angle-shooters, drunk idiots, or waiting 45 minutes for a table. Sometimes efficiency trumps romance.
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As someone new to poker (6 months), online has been amazing for learning. Hand replayer, stats tracking, ability to multi-table - I've probably learned more in 6 months online than I would have in 2 years playing weekly live sessions.
The educational resources available now are incredible. Jonathan Little's courses, solver work, GTO trainers. Live poker feels like learning to drive without mirrors.
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Here's the real consideration most are missing: bankroll management. Live poker requires massive swings tolerance - £500+ downswings in a single session aren't uncommon in 2/5.
Online you can manage risk much better. Bad session at NL25? Drop to NL10. Downswing? Move down until you rebuild confidence. Live games don't offer that flexibility.
Withdrew £2,400 from PokerStars last month, hit my Barclays account in 18 hours. Try getting money that fast from a live game profit!
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@vip_player_uk Fair points on bankroll management, but you're still missing the intangible value. Some of my best business connections came from live poker games. Network value alone justifies the higher rake.
Plus, live tournament scores hit different. Winning £15K at a live comp versus grinding it online over months? The rush isn't comparable.
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Been watching this debate with interest. The mathematical analysis here is fascinating:
Let P(win_live) = probability of profit in live game
Let P(win_online) = probability of profit online game
Let EV_live = expected value live = (average_win × P(win_live)) - (average_loss × P(loss_live)) - rake_live
Let EV_online = expected value online = (average_win × P(win_online)) - (average_loss × P(loss_online)) - rake_onlineGiven that rake_online < rake_live significantly, and assuming skill levels remain constant, EV_online > EV_live mathematically.
The only variable that could change this equation is if P(win_live) >> P(win_online), meaning live games are substantially softer. But with solver availability and training tools, this gap is closing rapidly.
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@roulette_rob Exactly this. Game theory optimal play is becoming the baseline online. Live players are still using outdated strategies from 2010.
@casino_dan The networking argument is valid for high-stakes games, but most players aren't rubbing shoulders with business moguls at £1/£2. They're playing with taxi drivers and students - nothing wrong with that, but let's not pretend every live game is a scene from Casino Royale.
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This thread perfectly illustrates why the poker community can be insufferable sometimes. You've got the online grinders acting like live players are idiotic dinosaurs, and live players pretending online poker isn't 'real' poker.
Both formats have merit. Both require skill. Both can be profitable. Play what you enjoy and stop gatekeeping poker.
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@sarah_g Wise words! Update from the trenches: Been playing online for 3 weeks now, mostly NL10 and NL25 on PokerStars.
Results are encouraging - up £340 over 15,000 hands. That's roughly 2.3bb/100 which apparently is decent for these stakes. More importantly, I can actually track my progress properly now.
Still plan to play live occasionally, but online is definitely becoming my main game. The convenience factor alone is huge.
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@poker_pete_uk Glad it's working for you mate. Maybe I'm just getting old and nostalgic for the 'good old days' of poker.
Went back to my local room last weekend - half the tables were empty, average age seemed to be about 55, and the atmosphere was dead. Perhaps online is just the natural evolution of the game.
Might be time for this old dog to learn some new tricks after all.
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@james_uk Never too late to adapt! The learning resources available now are incredible compared to when we started. Solvers, training sites, database analysis - it's like having a team of coaches.
If you do make the switch, start small and be patient with yourself. The transition isn't easy but it's absolutely worth it for serious players.